Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. The points raised by alfinlandi are very reasonable to counter the points of the article. They were 6 meters tall! 10.can al hijr be somewhere else like al ula Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. Qur'an, Surah Fussilat (41:15-18) Explanation: "As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right." The leftover of Ad were taken and built over by Thamud. It mentions the elusive city of Iram (mentioned in the above Quranic verse), and reads May Abdallhi son of Atmo be remembered for all time before Allt, the goddess of Iram.. The Meaning of La Ilaha Illa Allah (Tawheed): What is Islam? We do not believe in the Bible the way it is today. And when you strike, you strike as tyrants.Chapter 26, Verse 130. The Quran itself says that the dwellings of Thamud were khawiyatan during the time of the Qurans revelation. They were more sophisticated than the Aad. 7. But the Thamud were more nuanced in their rejection. and the pride of your heart have deceived you, People descended with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, to the valley of Hijr, the land of Thamud, and they drank from the wells and kneaded flour with it. A temple they constructed at Rawwafa, 200 miles north of Medina, mentions the following in a Greek-Nabataean bilingual inscription: For the wellbeing of the rulers of the whole world . However, as the Christians have proposed an objection to the notion of any other people carving structures in hills and mountains prior to the Nabateans, this leaves the Christians with the following options: (1). The Thamud are mentioned in contemporary Mesopotamian, Classical, and Arabian sources, including in inscriptions in a temple erected in the 160s for the god lh, by the Thamud themselves. Also sorry with wadi alQura where is that place because you mention in your article that is the place and it is different but where is it in saudia Arabia like how far from madain saleh and where is it near because they dont show it on the maps, 4. They were Giants and so powerful. The earliest abundant references for Thamud in our literary sources are in relation to the Nabataean empire a large Arab kingdom encompassing parts of modern Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia (including the Hejaz, the area containing Mecca and Medina) and even parts of Sinai. When Salih began to preach monotheism, the Thamud demanded that he prove his prophethood by bringing forth a pregnant camel from solid rock. During the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the Quraish would debate with him and ask him all sorts of questions. Adites conquered Iraq and Syria mixing with the Akkadians and Amorites( They are known as the people of Us, When actual tribe of ad perished Prophet Hud pbuh was with the banu thamud who are from him, they livedfrom North Arabia to greater part of Syria mixing with the Assyrians . In my opinion this is an argument that Muslims have to tackle thoroughly due to its ease of presentation by non-Muslims and (hypothetical) explanatory power. (41:13) They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. you who live in the clefts of the rocks[a] Assalam alikum forget the rest of what Ive put down but I was just wondering does 36:41 prove that every one on the earth comes from the people of tge ark if yes then how does that work because people could still see thamud dwellings so that means they could only come thousands of years of go but we know noah had to come near them but we know humans have been here at least 40 thousand bc so how do we explain this, Assalam alikum thanks for the answers but thamud had to be destroyed no lesser than 3000 bc not 800 bc jazzakallah because thamud came before Abraham jazzakallah but thanks, Also if the quran says the area is wadi al qura then madian al saleh is not wadi al qura jazzakallah but thanks, But of course in there empire day they would of probably built in wadi al qura and al ula and madian al saleh and else where in there area because they would of had a large population any where between 20 thousand to 50 thousand people because mekkah and median together came to 20-40 thousand people in the prophets day and 40:21 says these people were more in population so they had to be more than mekkah and median, Assalam alikum also dies 7:74 mean that Thamud were the descendents of ad or not or were they they descendents of ad jazzakallah. 6. They were scientists and technicians and craftsmen, so they wanted conclusive proof. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Quran and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings, The Issue of the Qurans Teaching on Islamic Monotheism. - _ tafseer. Or just left relics in land 6. 2) The dwellings of Thamud are elsewhere in the valley of Hijr. You built mansions on the plains and hewed the hills into houses[7:74]. And they used to carve from the mountains, houses, feeling secure. Hence, they had become very rich. As for the conclusion that Ashab al-Hijr were not Thamud, I think this is rather unwarranted. of 'Ad and Thamud by name. Based on some of the artifacts and writing, there are several civilizations at play here and they consider that the stone carvings were the work of Nabataens), Assalam alikum but mu point is it make it sound like these 2 verses mean that thamud and AD buildings were still standing tall my point is on the arabic word atharan because does this mean that this verses are saying midian al saleh are thamud because that would be wrong, Does atharan mean we have to see it or does it just mean they made marks witch we dont have to see, Walikum asalam (9:70) Have they not heard the accounts of those who came before them [77] - of the people of Noah and 'Ad and Thamud, and the people of Abraham and the dwellers of Madyan (Midian), and the cities that were overturned? ___ : __ >> :____ Fatwa __ . 2 See, I will make you small among the nations; Most of the monuments and inscriptions of the archaeological site of Al-Hijr date from the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. When some one has a keen desire to understand logically or has questions, there is nothing wrong I think. The most striking thing about the Thamud was the huge buildings and structures they built into the sides of mountains. Thamud scripts and finds are noted in the area as well as possible signs of the ancient people before Thamud. Anyway, whats really important is what led to their punishment. They are related to the Banu Abs tribe.[33]. Success comes from Allah, and Allah knows best. A similar narrative can be found in Jeremiah 49:16 This genealogical relationship is further reflected in the theory . Arab genealogical tradition. Umar reported that the people encamped along with Allahs Messenger () in the valley of Hijr, the habitations of Thamud, and they quenched their thirst from the wells thereof and kneaded the flour with it. We are in grave doubt about what you are asking us to do." The video (arabic): https://youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA. _ Story of Aad _tafseer. They could either mean that we can see the remains and consider the signs and warnings or theyre giving HISTORICAL lessons and portents for us to take note. It would be unsurprising then, to find them in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia. What do we intend to get out of the statement that they were more in number and strength in what they left behind. You mentioned that there are many house-like structures in the valley today, so perhaps they are one of those. Let me explain who they are People Aad, and they are said to be called Aad by the name of their father, an extinct Arab tribe mentioned in the Qur'an . But despite all of this advice, the Aad rejected their brother Hud. This is not but from the customs of the former peoples and we will not be punished.Chapter 26, Verses 136-136. But I digress. Q.28:58 is general: And how many a city have We destroyed that was insolent in its [way of] living, and those are their dwellings which have not been inhabited after them except briefly. What? It seems we gonna have some proper analysis on this case, and Allah (as) knows best! [28] A large Arab migration to Mesopotamia followed the Muslim conquest of Mesopotamia in 634, which saw an increase in the culture and ideals of the Bedouins in the region. You would only make my loss greater. Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. Some Muslims have mistakenly equated sites such as these with the first Thamud of the Quran, but it is believed by archaeologists that a different group of people called the Nabataeans, in fact, built some of these sites. The tribes of 'Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. Doesnt matter if they were destroyed before or after Ibn Kathir and the land is not in Yemen. And perhaps, just like the Aad before them, they forgot the faith of Tawheed practiced by their ancestors and slipped into worhsiping idols. Witch out of these 7 does it sound more what the verses are saying or does it mean something other than these 7 The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. who occupy the heights of the hill. And [We destroyed] 'Aad and Thamud and the companions of the well and many generations between them. Trying to make sense of this mad, mad world, And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], Worship Allah and avoid Taghut. And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. And remember when He made you successors after the Aad and settled you in the land, [and] you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. The facades vary in height and in the richness of their decorations. And As-Saihah (torment - awful cry) overtook the wrong-doers, so they lay (dead), prostrate in their homes, As if they had never lived there. The Story of Adam (The First Man) _ part 1. But they almost always have some other deities included in their pantheon. Salamun alaikum, 3. Similarly, much later, Thamud were wiped out and their remains were taken over by Midianites of which we see the pictures and they constructed over them as per their methods. But the shriek seized them at early morning. 2. Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. Previous ones may have fallen and replaced by Nabateans but during the time of the Prophet (), there did remain buildings of Thamud and who knows, they might still be there today but undiscovered by archaeologists. Akkadians are from Prophet Hud pbuh. After the given time was over, an earthquake shook the land violently and destroyed the people of Thamud in one cry. Nevertheless, a number of interesting archaeological sites still exist in Arabia that have preserved the ruins of lost civilizations, such as the Archaeological Site of Al-Hijr (Madin Slih). As for now, we dont know. Indeed, the Quran states that many generations came after the first tribe of Thamud without specifying an exact timeline. Unfortunately, both nations rejected their prophets. It is very conceivable that those individuals who established this society became the pillars of the nation and their descendents took advantage of that and maintained a stranglehold on the wealth of the nation. Hud was from among the Aad himself, as Allah mentions in the Quran: Aad denied the Messengers when their brother Hud said to them: Will you not fear Allah?Chapter 26, Verses 124 125. Allah sent a powerful windstorm to the Aad that destroyed them and left them sprawled and mangled in their homes. They just wanted to catch him in some sort of inconsistency they could use to discredit him. Jumping the gun, 2. In the historical and archaeological record, both were contemporaries, but by the time of the Prophet in the 7th century AD, they had become little more than a distant memory, and their ruins, places of myth and legend. [5], A surviving letter from Nabonidus, a sixth-century BC king of Babylon, includes an order that a "Te-mu-da-a Ar-ba-a-a", apparently "Thamudi Arab", be given several talents of silver. Assalamualaikum I dont believe 27:50-53 is necessarily referring to their houses existing at the time of the Prophet SAW when they tell us to behold the sign therein. 1. 89:9 is in past tense. Unfortunately, both nations rejected their prophets. In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. The general consensus among 14th-century Arab genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: . [18] According to the Quran, the Thamud were the successors of a previous nation called the d, who had also been destroyed for their sins. Some have shelves carved into the rock; one has a large room, possibly big enough to house a council. Therefore, the Aad were a society that sprung up from the survivors of the flood, perhaps some of the same people who rode in the Ark with Prophet Noah (AS). If we try to discuss the lineage of the Arabs well be here forever. Your email address will not be published. The people led wealthy excessive lives, built grand buildings, both on the plains, and carved into the hills. After several centuries of independent existence, it was finally incorporated into the Roman empire in 106 AD. Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. In the Nabataean period, several impressive facades were carved into the hills outside al-Hijr, between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD. The Bible Chapter___ MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORI Chapter___ Human Embryonic Development __ Qur'an a Atowar Rahman Salafi _ Atowar Rahman Salafi | atow Suhih Bukhari_ Book of "End of the World". [3] As the "Ta-mu-di", the peoples are mentioned together with the Ephah, the "Ibadidi", and the "Marsimani" as part of "the distant desert-dwelling Arabs who knew neither overseers nor officials and had not brought their tribute to any king". An archeologist studying Mount Rushmore 2000 years after the inscriptions may well deduce that the statues of Mount Rushmore were made by Latin Americans and even guess the date incorrectly. Both groups of people were located on the Arabian Peninsula. She states that all we have are A few papyri, which are mainly private contracts, and thousands of graffiti scattered on the rocks, 90% of which contain only the name of the individual who wrote it, his fathers name, and a formulaic greeting. - _ taf . Also if it is in the present it makes it sound there buildings were like brand new like not destroyed etc, This is it then Im done but thank you very much for answering my questions jazzakkallah, 3. How destroyed do you think the buildings were and does the hadith mean that there inside were not destroyed or could of they been destroyed as well or not. The Quran on the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science. Perhaps they couldnt understand the significance of receiving a camel. 5. The earliest Arab tribes emerged from Bedouins. Yet as we have seen, the Quran does not claim any of these specific sites belong to the ancient tribe of Thamud per se. "Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa", "Hidden History, Secret Present: The Origins and Status of African Palestinians", "Symbolism on the Syrian Standing Caliph Copper Coins", "A Detailed Account of the History of Arabs Before Islam", " ", " - Abd al-Fatt Miqlad Ghunaym, - Google", " - Thmir Abd al-asan mir - Google", "204 - - - ", http://islamport.com/w/nsb/Web/489/27.htm, The dwelling places and wanderings of the Arabian tribes, by Heinrich Ferdinand Wstenfeld, in German, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tribes_of_Arabia&oldid=1137459459, Wikipedia articles incorporating a citation from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica with Wikisource reference, Short description is different from Wikidata, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 4 February 2023, at 19:44. Perhaps these survivors were Prophet Hud (AS) and his followers. They were elites. [pp. There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. He sent Prophet Hud (AS) to the Aad, and Prophet Salih (AS) to the Thamud. [23] Arab tribes such as Banu Muzaina migrated, and the Arab Muslims in the region had more impact on the culture of the Maghreb than the region's conquerors before and after them. Having failed to save his people, Salih warned that they would be destroyed after three days. The same can be said about 7:84 where Allah SWT is telling us to SEE the end of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Nabatean inscriptions are the ancient equivalent of graffiti, which humans even today have a predilection for. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Let us know if you have suggestions to improve this article (requires login). The means of God's destruction of Thamud include a thunderbolt, a storm, a shout, and an earthquake. And of course, they were also polytheists. [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. From the overall area of a few miles, that particular area of a few feet had Thamudic remains. In light of these points, in my opinion the only reasonable conclusion is one of the following: 1) That the dwellings of Thamud were destroyed some time between The Expedition of Tabuk and today. A Reminder of the Story of `Ad and Thamd By Ibn Kathir - Fri 14 Muharram 1425 (5 Mar 2004) 0 5604 Explanation: means, they were arrogant, stubborn and disobedient. [27], This article is about the ancient Arabian tribe. Expel Jews and Christians from Arabian Peninsula? . Because inscriptions cannot be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are not. Id hate to be the one to rain on the holy Christian parade, but this inanity has to be responded to. Long before the Roman empire, before Alexanders conquests, even before the great Persian monarchs, there were the Assyrians lords of much of the Middle East, and archetypes of almost every empire that came after them. 'Ad and Thamud are closely connected by both Islamic and pre-Islamic sources. There is a popular historical show in Saudi Arabia with Eid Al-Yahya where they visit the area of Madain Saleh and he definitely makes a credible case showing that Madain Saleh has indications of being built by Thamud, but being used and completed by the Nabateans. The Qurn mentions the Thamd as examples of the transitoriness of worldly power. Hud ( ) was sent to Ad and after their destruction, Thamud inherited the land. [7] Today, all these areas are located in the Arab world with the exception of Khuzestan. There was a great influx of Arab tribes into Khuzestan from the 16th to the 19th century, including the migration of the Banu Ka'b and Banu Lam from the Arabian desert. The world is a prison-house for a believer and Par ()_ (): _ _____Terminology of Hadith. I hope the Christians, after having read this, will decide to do whats ethical and moral. As I mentioned in our discussion on your post regarding Gog and Magog, I was very interested to read your reply to the missionary accusation regarding Thamud, because the argument seems to be rather recent and it seems to at least on its surface have good argumentation and hence we as Muslims must develop countermeasures. The Ghassanids, Lakhmids and Kindites were the last major migration of pre-Islamic Arabs out of Yemen to the north. The word Thamud appears in the Annals of the Assyrian king Sargon II (r. 722705 BCE), inscribed at Dur-Sharrukin. Corrections? [Quran 27:45]. This has led traditional Muslim historians to place the two quite early in history, much before the time of even Abraham and Moses. So bring on whatever punishment you say is coming to us.. Seriously? After all, camels were and still are pretty common in that part of the world. . I am unsure if the root word but atharan can mean impact. their country was called Arabia Petraea, the rocky; and their metropolis Petra, the rock: Jerom says that they that inhabited the southern part of the country and dwelt in caves cut out of the rock, to screen them from the heat of the sun: or, thou that dwellest in the circumferences of the rock F16; round about it, on the top of it, in a tower built there, as Kimchi and Ben Melech. Although the Thamud probably originated in southern Arabia, a large group apparently moved northward at an early date, traditionally settling on the slopes of Mount Athlab. However this would not explain why the Prophet () referred to the houses as Thamuds dwellings. This implies that the carvings in Madain Saleh (which in fact date to the first century CE) are not from the Thamudians, but rather their successors many centuries later in the same area. The tribes of Arabia descend from either one of the two Arab ancestors, Adnan or Qahtan. 1. Verses 15:80-83describe its inhabitants as carving their homes out of mountains and being decimated by a loud shriek characteristics ascribed by the Quran elsewhere to the people of Thamud2. Well, next to nothing. 3. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. As menitoned earlier, the Aad were a strong, brutish, and conquering people. and make your home on the heights, The Quran and quoted Hadiths indicate that the buildings of the Thamud were visible at the time of the Prophet () as signs to the Arabs. The Ayah is general [And how many a city have I (Allah) destroyed]? However, now none may be visible and what is visible now are those made centuries later. Thirdly, the hadith you quoted isnt the only hadith on the topic. It is possible that the dwelling areas are no longer visible in the last 1400 years as these are just small rooms and tombs with no space inside. Suppose if Nuh ( ) came 40,000 years ago or even 100,000 years ago and the few hundred or a few thousand people were destroyed by the flood, then it would not be difficult to believe that human population reached in millions, further subdividing into nations, communities, and tribes, after thousands of years. The Thamd were known from contemporary sources to have occupied parts of the Hejaz region, and later Islamic tradition holds that they settled on the slopes of Mount Athlab. We hardly know anything about the Nabateans aside of their nomadic life-style, which is not consonant with building these incredible structures. In addition to building gigantic structures, the Aad were also conquerors. I would be interested in your response to my other points as well. They were craftsmen. The Edomites were proud of their wealth and riches, which they had by robberies amassed together; and of their military skill and courage, and of their friends and allies; and especially of their fortresses and fastnesses, both natural and artificial; and therefore thought themselves secure, and that no enemy could come at them to hurt them, and this deceived them: thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock; Question:What is the correct explanation for the P --* _ . A. Yusuf Ali wrote: The Thamud people were destroyed by a dreadful earthquake which threw them prone on the ground and buried them with their houses and their fine buildings., A terrible earthquake came and buried the people [of Thamud] and destroyed their boasted civilization. Its also implausible that a people who would be at the helm of such epic architectural and engineering achievements would not even make mention of it, or at least keep a record of it. 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